Hey all you guildleaders and admin-type people...I'm in need of some help.

Our guild is currently in the middle of a dilemma regarding DPS warriors and how much DKP they should spend on their tanking gear. Most of us can agree that all warriors need to be able to tank when it's asked of them, and we can also agree that they will need their necessary gear for that. What we're split about is how much DKP they should spend on their non-DPS (i.e. tanking) gear. Some of the prot warriors think the notion of a differently-specced warrior receiving their valuable tanking gear at a reduced price is unfair. Some guildmembers think it should be just given to them at zero DKP if none of the tanks want the item. Still others think everyone should pay full price for all items, regardless of spec...and that is the price you pay for being a class that can do many things. (Feral druids, shadow priests, etc.)

What I would like is to hear your guild's policy on this. My last hordeside guild didn't have this issue at all -- all the warriors, regardless of spec, were happy to spend DKP on any piece of plate they could equip. It's apparently different this time.

I'd love your input. Thanks.

Lan

In our guild it is understood that the tanks that show up for every raid are the most active are given any thing that is a serious upgrade or a boost in defense. For instance, when we started MC, if a piece of might dropped and Warstar didn't have it, he got it. Period, no questions. They are all real good about it and never ask for anything, but rather have things jammed down their throats. We are talking about 2-3 tanks here. Quite simply DKP doesnt matter for them and they get first crack at anything.

It is part honor system and part understanding throughout the guild. Unless we have one or two guys who are as decked out as possible, we are going to progress slowly through raiding. As is, we went from being able to down 2 bosses in MC to being able to farm anything but the end boss in a month, and pretty much the same situation in ZG. (We live in a new server and very few people are geared well) It works out well for us. The other tanks may have to wait a week or two to get that choice item, but with a couple seriously decked out warriors, the purples come in cascades and everyone is happy.

To be honest though, we are having a bit of a difficulty figuring it out too. Our main tanks are decked out with a ton of DKP. They realize the situation and don't spend it, but we aren't sure how to handle it either. That is how we handle the cost aspect. It costs 0 period. A good tank is absolutely mandatory for raiding and it benefits everyone.

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Eleipher, The Warlock Extraordinaire
The New Beginning
Thorium Brother Hood



Guild Webmaster

We are the same way with our tanks -- it is understood that the tanks get geared out first, which they have. Our issue is about the off-tanks and what they spend on tanking gear.

Example: Helm of Might dropped the other night. All prot-specced warriors already had it, so it went to a DPS warrior. This warrior wanted to pass on it because he isn't protection specced and he wanted to save his DKP for attack pieces, but we had him take it anyway because he will need it for his tanking set and we didn't want to see it get sharded. What we are having a problem deciding is how much DKP to charge him for an item that he won't use all the time, but he will definitely need at some point.

Some folks are saying give it to him for free if no one else wants it, but others are saying it will mess up the DKP distribution...and that nobody should get free epics. Others are saying charge him half or 75% of cost, etc. Still others are saying full price.

I have offered it on our forums for guild discussion, but so far it's only been a paladin vs. warrior spec conversation.

Lan

I'll get into this discussion a little bit more, but a big thing for us is that a lot of our warriors didn't want to spend a lot of DKP on "PvE Only" stuff. And being a casual guild, The only way we could see that working well was to lower the price of tanking gear such that they could take their PvE gear and be competent tanks, while allowing them to get their PvP gear as well.

Sounds like you're in a similar boat.

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It's all in the reflexes.

Did you lower the price of tanking gear for all warriors, or just for non-tanks? The warrior in question puts out amazing numbers when we raid, and understandably wants to save his DKP for the weapons, trinkets, and rings that the rogues will want...but he'll still need to be able to tank when it's required of him.

We lowered it for all, but we also set up a "Tank Priority" for who gets what next. To give preference to our uber tanks.

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It's all in the reflexes.

If you tell a tank to take an item so it wont get sharded, don't charge him. How is that fair? Well, if you don't bid on an item (we use bidding) then you won't get it. If no one wants it, it should be sharded or given away. I would never give someone an item and then expect them to pay for it.

--
Eleipher, The Warlock Extraordinaire
The New Beginning
Thorium Brother Hood



Guild Webmaster

I'm thinking we will probably end up compromising by lowering tanking gear prices for DPS warriors, since the opinion of the guild seems span the whole spectrum. Our prot warriors are actually amazing -- they work out among themselves who gets the next piece, regardless of DKP. However, most of them don't think the DPS warriors should get their tanking gear for free.

And regarding him not wanting the item (and this is one of the themes up for discussion) -- all warriors need good tanking gear in order to be able to take a beating when it's required of them, regardless of spec. All warriors who raid have a set of tanking gear, I have yet to meet one who didn't. If this warrior doesn't take the tanking gear and it gets sharded, he will end up undergeared when it comes time for him to tank something for us, whether it's in MC, BWL, or beyond. Granted, we could allow him to just pass on all tanking gear and be DPS-only and never be called upon to tank, but then we would basically have a rogue in plate. Which would be fine, but with the expansion looming and the days of 40-man raids limited, we need to think about maximizing efficiency of every character played.

Not only that, but our current DKP system is a zero-sum system. If an item is sharded, no DKP is awarded to the players who were there when it dropped. Some people also have an issue with a DPS warrior with a free set of epics.

We had the same debate about Fire Resist gear. Knowing that eventually everyone will need a good amount of it especially the melee groups who have to stand with the bosses to DPS. There really isn't a solution to forcing someone to get something they are rarely going to use and this is the problem with DKP systems. People horde points for an item they really want and pass on a lot things that could make them very useful in certain situations.

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Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
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Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!