I see how it is possible to implement a basic Suicide Kings loot system: just use normal DKP and then the cost of each item is the amount of DKP it takes to send them to the bottom of the list.

But does the current GRSS addon allow you to keep multiple lists of DKP? For example, if I want my guild to have a "main" list that contains everyone and eight "class" lists (one for each class), does GRSS and the website support that? I suppose it would be akin to establishing different DKP lists for different dungeons/instances.

Yes. But you have to build a separate DKP System for each "list". So you have a DKP General, DKP Mage, DKP Warlock, DKP Hunter.....

And yes it is basically the same is having a different system for each instance or based on whether it is a 20 or 40 man instance.

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Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

Thanks!

You best bet, in this regard is to make a "Main" DKP System, and one "Class Specific" DKP System. There's no need to make 8 different systems, because the classes will be mutually exclusive. And It'll save you as TON of data entry hassle for your GRSS uploading.

When a pally item drops, then, you'll just need to look at the pallies in the "Class Specific" DKP System, rather than looking at the "Paladin Specific" DKP System. Additionally, the GRSS doesn't have a mechanism to do any kind of class-specific uploading... So if you're doing 8 different DKP Systems, you'll have to De-select all the players who aren't of that class when you do the upload. Overall, it'll be a real hassle to do it that way.

Ultimately, having a single "Class List" would be the ideal solution, as the Classes themselves would provide the distinction necessary.

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It's all in the reflexes.

Chops,

I been fiddling with the SK system and seeing if it is possible to get our GRSS system to work like SK. My inital test indicate no it will not work like SK.

Here are some reasons why.

The Suicide Kings system has a auto populate system for generating a New SK List. The GRSS Snapshot utility requires that data be uploaded to the website first.

There is no way to "Suicide" a player ingame other than when someone gets loot using the GRSS snapshot utility.

The format for standings is based on a single DKP system, Chops pointed out that in order to track the results of multiple classes SK you will need to upload multiple lists ... so the GRSS system isn't really design to handle this system as it stands.

So I wonder, since all the SK data is stored in a single SK file, and this file is basically the whole system, would it be possible to incorporate a importer that will import and display the SK data? There appears to already be a mod out there to do it. http://wow.curse-gaming.com/en/files/details/2269/sk-list/

Would you be willing to explore displaying the SK List on a page here Chops? Personally I would use both mods. One to track attendance and stuff, the other to control rolls.

Thanks,

Toddler

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i know ultimatley it is up to me what i want to use... but what is the most simplest, yet fair system to use for raid looting. And will all raids be unavailiable now till around lvl 68-70.
the way i understand it all 40 raids go to 25 man, 20 man go to 10 man. Is this accurate and will this push the End Game out of reach for the 60 lvl's


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Sham, there is no one perfect loot system for everyone, but each system has its strengths and weaknesses.

The existing raids UBRS, ZG, AQ20, MC, BWL, AQ40 and Naxx will remain at their current sizes, it is just the new instances in the Burning crusade which will be the 10-man and 20-man raids.

Here is a good link to wow wiki that explains most of the information needed to decide upon a loot system (http://www.wowwiki.com/Loot_system) the implementation depends on which you choose.

Just keep in mind that you need to figure out the type of guild you have and its goals and aims (keep them realistic for your guild), then decide upon a loot system which will keep most people happy and drama free.

Another problem with using GRSS for SK is that the suicides occur only relative to the other players in the current raid.

Doing GRSS with a spend all type system will suicide relative to all players in that DKP system.

I think this could work with GRSS (sort of) provided that the DKP system could be flagged as SK so that during point import a suicide somehow only changes points relative to the players that participated in the raid.

The basics: http://www.wowwiki.com/Suicide_Kings

More detailed SK system info: http://www.blackcompanywow.com/viewforum.php?f=5

There is a MySQL importer out there for SK, I wish Chops would add support for importing a SK file. <Bump>

Although the new DKP system Chops added looks more like what I will implement.

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I'll read up a little bit more on suicide kings. I was unaware of the "relative only to members of the raid" aspect of Suicide Kings. I just thought that Suicide Kings was just a clever name for "Spend All" system.

In that regard, it might be worth adding support for GRSS Item Popups to just type "all" and it'll zero out all that players points.

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It's all in the reflexes.

What about randomly assigning someone in a RAID a position based on Rolls? The SK system doesn't use points at all, it is all about your position. When it is your turn you can op to take the item and goto the bottom of the list, or pass and keep your position.

Toddler

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suicide kings is basically round robin. Person buys, drop to bottom. Everyone is pushed up. Actually the way the mod works. The seed score just rotates. for example

Player A 588
Player B 249
Player C 129
Player D 48

A - Suicides so it becomes

Player B 588
Player C 249
Player D 129
Player A 48

B- Passes, so C takes the next item

Player B 588
Player D 249
Player A 129
Player C 48

If the numbers are only specific to a certain run, and the seeds are regenerated from random rolls at the beginning of each run, and not dependent on anything else, why does the website need to import anything?

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It's all in the reflexes.

The numbers are not specific to a certain run and the seeds are not generated at the beginning of each run. Here's how you setup an SK system:

Players A through Z do a /random 1000. This assigns their initial place in the list. You then do several raids. A player's seed score changes only if they're on the raid. Short example:

Initial list
Player A 588
Player B 249
Player C 129
Player D 48
Player E 12

Players A, C, and E are on the raid. Players B and D are off on hot dates.

A takes an item and "suicides" to the bottom
Player C 588
Player B 249
Player E 129
Player D 48
Player A 12

Note that the bolded entries remain unchanged because those players are not on the raid. Another item drops ...

C passes on the item; E decides to take it
Player C 588
Player B 249
Player A 129
Player D 48
Player E 12

Again, bold entries are unchanged because players are not on the raid. Next week when a new raid starts, the final list above is what gets used. That means Player C has first shot at some loot.

This system is usually broken down into a "main" list and a set of "class" lists, one for each class. Hopefully the round robin/loot rotation of this system is a bit clearer now. If not or if you just want more info, here's a good Flash explanation of the SK system.

Because you can carry the list over to other runs. Importing the list, would track the current position people are in.

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I'm also very interested in seeing this implemented. We currently use SK for our guild and it works great. The only thing that really needs to be imported is the list so that after every run it is updated on the site and people can see where they stand.

If some of you guys wouldn't mind uploading your Suicide Kings data files, I can look into writing an importer for them.

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It's all in the reflexes.

Has anyone uploaded any files yet? If not, I'll do it later when I get home and provide a link. Would really like to be able to keep the SK list updated on the site without so much manual work.

You can attach a file directly to a message. Just click the "File Attachments" link when composing your message. (It's at the bottom of the message creation screen.)

I don't see that anyone has uploaded such a file yet. I'd do it, but my guild has since moved on and we're doing zero sum DKP.

Our guild has also decided to go with Suicide Kings. We will wait patiently for this implentation as we don't quite need it yet. However, within the next two months we will.



Ignie