I'm working on the advanced layout and I have to say I'm very disappointed in the guidance provided. The lack of documentation on both the layout elements (menu, etc) as well as the lack of detailed css documentation makes figuring this out almost more trouble than it's worth which I'm sure is part of the reason that it seems to me like so few sites really do truly advanced layouts.

I know that this has been something that Chops is and has been working on for a while. Not sure the status but I am sure that he is getting more features ready as they are asked for and documentation probably just isn't getting the thought it deserves.

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Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

Documentation is not an easy thing since the whole purpose is to provide the user with the ability to make whatever type of functionality he/she wants. How do you provide documentation for the unknown?

Furthermore, there's a TON of coding done by the PHP tags... going back to explain all the independant Objects in order to allow someone to make BG's transparent, etc. is a HUGE undertaking... especially where multiple layered objects are concerned.

No, Advanced Layout options are just that: Advanced. They require a fair amount of HTML proficiency already, and if you have that, you should be able to figure it all out.

Documentation is nice, but it is a massive project in of itself.

That said, an easier thing to do (and much faster to make available) is to provide more and more Templates that sites can use... and Chops is doing just that. At least, he's asked for peeps to help, and as he gets more, more will be provided.

On the other hand: Chops, I think I can assist with the documentation as well as providing further layouts. I can see the code usign Viewsource, so perhaps a Advanced Layout FAQ? That's something I don't mind doing. I'll start some (beginning with the one I already answered: How to make the Right menu's disappear on Forum pages).

Really it's more a bunch of How To's. Anyway, I'll start to compile a list.

If you take that approach you might think about making a thread asking people what they want to know how to do in Advanced Layouts. I'm sure you might get a lot of simple responses at first. This would probably give a focused list at least to start with.

--
Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

I'm tearing my hair out right now trying to figure out which elements are actually "Advanced Layout" and which are still inherited from the basic color/background configuration. For example, clicking on a calendar entry pops up the detail... which doesn't use ANY advanced layout at all. It's all inherited from the basic color/background.

Arrrrgh.

I can certainly understand your frustration with that. However I think missing links like things that tie elements of a popup to the CSS file are more of an oversite than anything. I think your correct in that you should be able to change all the colors and formatting via the CSS. I think this is just something that Chops will need to look at and update.

--
Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

The popups like the Edit Post, and the Calendar settings still use the basic Color Configurator, unfortunately.

I'm sorry my documentation isn't the best. It's really quite barebones, as it lays out the functions, tells you what they do, and lets you go.

Like Noble said, I'm working on a couple of things to help alleviate that. However, your best guide is using the "Regenerate Layout and Menu" option, saving those files to the hard drive, and looking at them to see how they're done.

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It's all in the reflexes.

I understand your frustration as well. I have run into a few things that have spun me a bit, but I simply asked on these forums for help, and was met with very timely responses.

Also to echo the thoughts above ... unfortunately, the advanced layout tools will probably never have the type of documentation needed to allow someone to sit down and plug a site in and go, as it depends on the end user adding, and redesigning things on their own.

The CSS file already has everything listed in notation ... albeit a little cryptic in spots. I guess my point is, (and please forgive me if this is not correct) what is provided to you is a basic layout, and the functionality to make a guild website that can greatly smooth the organization of a guild. The fact that he is letting us throw wrenches all over the place, and make it look like we want it to, and is willing to answer out myriad of inane questions in a timely fashion, is actually above and beyond.

I actually had a similar problem ... my backround for popups ended up as the same color as my text (due to me not paying attention when initially setting up colors) ...

Might be a good idea to add a note about that in the advanced layout page tho Chops ... something about **To Edit the color scheme of the popout windows on your site, goto ADMIN > COLOR MANAGEMENT ... You could also advise them that using the color management to layout the colors, before implementing a custom CSS will give better results?

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Actually a good idea DJ... at least add those two items (The instruction about pop_ups + the css suggestion) to the Advanced Layout Admin page would be wise.

Plus, I can add that to the FAQ

See Chops? "If you build it, they WILL come..." It speaks a great deal about you and your work that your customers like your work so much, that they want to assist you in any way they can. You have a great thing going here. Gratz to you on your hard work!

We could start a thread,

post the CSS, with all of the different fields (or whatever they are called, options? cellstyles? lol ... sometimes I am so clueless) ... strip out all of the values, but leave the notes, and we can write up decriptions or lists of all of the different things they control, just to help flush them out a little, as to people like me some of the noted descriptons are a little cryptic, as I have no real html or css training. I am a true trial and error kid ^_^ ... ok, I won't lie, i'm not a kid anymore :{

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I'll contribute what I've learned.

Perhaps a wiki? Or some guide style pages for us to work on together?

I like this idea, cuz I would rather Chops work on the bagillion crazy ideas I have for cool features (most of which he probably just laughs about(and I don't blame him)) than some huge list of instructions. ^_^

Im at work atm though and wiki scare me =P (again, that lack of any real training / understanding of them) ... but I'm sure I could figure out how to contribute if someone set one up, though maybe we should let Chops chime in first, as he might wanna set one up on the site here for us or something.

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Actually what would help me out isn't extensive documentation (such as, "to do this specific thing, you must use this command which does....") but an example to look at, just a completed version of what a final file might look like, even if it uses false URLs like www.yourguild.com and generic text like YourMenuItem1, rather than just a bare bones skeleton with no sample information.

Just looking at the Layout.html and Menupage.html of an existing guild which uses the Advanced Layout Options (in addition to the brief descriptions already on the "Advanced Layout Options" page in "Admin") would help me as much or maybe more than a long-winded set of instructions or documentation.

I'm familiar enough with HTML and CSS that I just need to see examples where the HTML/CSS fits into DKPsystem framework, if that makes sense. Where one ends and the other begins.

I don't just want to plug in a template and overwrite my guild's name and the menu texts, or copy another guild's design, I want to create my own layout, just need an example to look at, even with generic texts.

I have added ALOT to the basic layout file. I have zipped my javascript files and the layout files. They are available here:
http://www.thenewbeginning.us/Downloads/TNB.zip

Feel free to steal anything you want. I did not include the image files. I also did not include the dhtml menu at the top of my page. That comes from a program by sothink that you can download and use for 30 days free.

Please understand that these files are not compliant with WC3 standards and that I have not combed through them and cleaned them up, but they work.

--
Eleipher, The Warlock Extraordinaire
The New Beginning
Thorium Brother Hood



Guild Webmaster

I recommend the following:

Before you start, pick your colors, and get a layout in mind for the site. Laying it out in photoshop, or rough sketches help a lot. It helps you decide how many columns, what images you will need, etc. Once you know where you are going and how you want to get there:

1-Start with the header for your site. Lay it out in a separate html file, so you can test it locally. It is faster and easier.

2-Once you have that, work on the footer for your site if you want one.

3-Once you have the pretty top and bottom, incorporate it into the layout file. Be sure to upload all your images one at a time in the admin file uploader. Get everything layed out right.

4-Now start changing the basic layout file. Little changes at a time, or when things go wrong, you have changed so much you don't know where to look.
a-get your colors right
b-set up any border images you may want
c-start moving content around.

Once you get to #4 you are well into the "play with it" till you are happy stage.

--
Eleipher, The Warlock Extraordinaire
The New Beginning
Thorium Brother Hood



Guild Webmaster

... and one thing to remember to check is the fact that some settings (colors for the calendar popout) are still part of the basic config. So even when you do an advanced layout you'll need to go back and set the basic config to use the same background img and site colors.

It could be worse. It could be like Myspace

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Muricas

your zip file really meant alot to me since i never worked in HTML/Javascript/css before but still i felt that our guild site had to change looks. luckily i'm a fast learner


http://fate.dkpsystem.com

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designer of http://aszune.dkpsystem.com

In all honesty I have found the advanced layout options very simple. I do see though that some people may be confused on how all this works though. if you have never done any website editing on your own it can be a pain.

however its not so much chops who would need to document how to use it. i know its his site but like what was said in a prev post here, how can you give a guide for the unknown.

if you wish to learn about css there is a very good website that breaks it down and shows you how to add what you need and all the syntax's for everything

http://www.westciv.com/style_master/academy/css_tutorial/

i hope this helps some of you if you are trying to create your own.

Lastly though it would be good to have built in layouts that are different then just changing the top bars on the site. If you dont have to mess with css or html it would make customizing your guilds website so much easier.

so chops get on this! *whip crack* you get 3 more lashes every day this isnt done no sun for you computer geek!