Greetings all,

Let me first say that I love the filter system on the forums. But I seem to be getting an increase in the number of people complaining that it is difficult to use due it's sticky nature.

Many people are used to the other PHP BBS type forums, so I was wondering if there is any interest having the option to have "Classic" forums that use folders, etc and an Advanced option for those that like and can accept change?

If you need examples of what I am talking about please let me know, and I will provide examples.

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Sure give me examples of everyone that is dissing thread tags so I can start flaming them immediately.

SERIOUSLY JUST KIDDING

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Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

I guess it shows my lack of use in the past of forums that it wasn't hard for me to adapt to Thread Tags. Most of my die hard trolls complained for about 3 months and then all agreed that they eventually liked tags better.

I know what you talking about with forum styles and I have to say I prefer tags to the other systems for the same reasons Chops states he implemented them. I dread going into different folders or forums just to see the unread topic there. I guess I don't see where filters are really that complicated.

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Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

Totally agree.

But if this system stops people from posting or using the site, I have a problem. Especially if they are my more hard core players.

One artifact I get is that everyone post in the general forum with the Filters. My hope is tha a folder sytem would make it so people only post in the forum they are viewing.

Toddler

PS, why hasn't my sig updated in a while?

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This is a big thing I have noticed too. Until people that can or are willing to adapt to the system do so they just post in the default tag. This does lend to the system being convoluted with threads that you really can't filter on to get to the right thing. I have worked in a CSR environment for the last 11 years and the term I hate the most is Customer/User Education. Basically implying that you have to teach everyone how to use your service or product correctly. But it is basically true. Every technology will evolve and at some point people will have to adapt.

Have you tried putting up a sticky post or something to extent of how to correctly use the forums with a tag system. This is probably part of the problem in that the older traditional forums are out there and it's what people learned on. It's like trying to teach a kid to drive a stick shift. We assume people are intuitive and can figure it out. I can't believe how many hardcore gamers out there are computer nubs and internet illiterate. I've had people that are excellent players in the game but I've had to hold their hand when downloading, installing, and configuring Vent or a mod that we require.

And please never take any of my comments the wrong way. I can not change the system (I'm just an operator like you) and don't want to dissuade you from continue to ask Chops for what you think makes it better. I'm just trying to offer suggestions or solutions within the system.

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Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

Here is a thought. Something that would force people to change the Thread Tag when making a post.

How about if there is no default. When you create a post the Thread Tag field is blank. If you select no Thread Tag the system pops an error box directing the user to select the most appropriate tag for their post topic. I think that this would force people to use something other than General and make it easier to realize that the Tag is the Topic or Forum from a traditional sense. Once people start using the appropriate tags then filtering on the forums should work as intended.

Just a thought.

--
Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

Here is one sites solution

http://wbob.dkpsystem.com/dynpage.php?id=3

All I have to say is yuck!.

What you propose is "The Annoyance" feature.

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Not to knock anyone else's choice but yeah I agree. Only because it really breaks the fluid theme of the site surrounding it IMO.

I guess I am stubborn the other other way. Its probably the reason I haven't read or been a member of many forums today. I can't stand Blizzards forums. I like to see what happens in the recruiting and community of other servers and their system make is such a waste of my time to try and scan through those forums.

Do you think the annoyance feature would help? I know it probably would in mine though I'm at a point now where I have people understanding how tags work so they readily see what it means to post in a Guild Only tag versus General or Off Topic.

--
Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

Fundemental Laws of Humans: People do what works. On average they will follow a path of lease resistance. So if you break it, either they will do the least amount of effort to succeed, or they will make a consious effort to make the right decision.

Folders with the option to use filters is my perferance. Give the noobs a framework, give the ones who are more advanced options to minimize navagation.

The thing that is nice about chop's system is that the administration of the forums is pretty easy to setup. I never used PHP so I am not sure if we are spoiled by Chops's admin interface or not. My assumption is that we are.



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I've never used PHP either though I am now taking a class for it as I have some web tools I'm supposed to be developing. My stuff will probably never look at good a Chop's mainly because I am not a full time developer.

I agree that most of us are spoiled that can intuitively figure out what is going on and what works because Chop's has spent a lot of time to create a system to does 2 things very well IMO.
Provide a highly customizable site for someone with absolutely zero skills to design a somewhat unique and functional layout.
At the same time he has created a system that allows those that have a varying degree of knowledge in Web Design or Architecture to implement pages and features that push the edge of his system in ways that he probably didn't expect in the first year running.

--
Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

When in 'simple filter mode' the forum to me, behaves in a similar fashion to a 'simple bbs board using folders'.. So to cater for the simple people who still dig the old style boards,
why not have a 'Post New Thread Here' Button appearing next to the 'Show all' drop down combo box when in 'Simple Filter' mode.

So the problem that Toddler is referring to is that when people make a post they rarely ever change the thread tag. So your idea while possibly making it more noticeable would not change the fact that the thread tag would still come up as the default topic.

--
Six Demon Bag
Jack Burton: Hey, what more can a guy ask for?
Egg Shen: Oh, a six-demon bag!
Jack Burton: Terrific, a six-demon bag. Sensational. What's in it, Egg?
Egg Shen: Wind, fire, all that kind of thing!

Hide the text entry frame until a thread tag is chosen imo. That's a simple fix to enforce tagging.

I keep trying to edit my own post but it's not working... so here it is instead:

My post implies that you can make that change yourself. Sorry. You can't. Chops would have to. I personally would love to see this change. The tagging system is awesome for low traffic boards as it stands right now but without enforced tagging it can be a nightmare for heavy traffic boards. If this were an option I'd definitely use it and I doubt it would seriously impact post time or user participation.

I think that's a pretty good idea.

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It's all in the reflexes.

I'm a huge advocate for Thread tags. Quite frankly I like to see all the discussions going on and mess with the ones I like.

That said, implementing Bulletine Boards [BB] (sp?) vs. Thread Tags [TT] is quite simple from a user interface standard, and I might suggest giving the option. I personally can help with that Chops. If you can get me a PHP tag that returns each of the users Thread Tag filters (I could tell you exactly the output I'd need if you choose to do this), I can creat a DynPage based off it that functions like BB Folders. Then when they click the folder for the "BB" they want it would call the current Forums page and auto-set the filter.

The Obviousness of the situation is that BB's and TT's are fundamentally the same from a database engine standpoint... they just have different UI's. TT's is a much more logical approach, but if peeps can't get over not having a typicall BB approach, I'm not sure why you wouldn't give it to them? I mean, not only do some Guilds go out of their way to have a BB (which means you are missing out on that annual recurring charge) but they also are creating some scary looking sites to accomplish that (IMO... whatever floats their boat I guess... but for me *shudders*. NOT A FAN).

I don't mind putting in the work for you Chops... though ultimately I'd need that PHP tag from you... let me know.

You got my vote.

Toddler

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