Same here. It's pretty ridiculous.

My initial assessment after BC was that it was going to cause an exodus from the guild because we cant do raids until 70.

But so far... we're actually growing.

Now that some things have settled down, overall, how are your guilds faring?

Still up in the air until we get a larger group of players at lvl 70. We have a few of our more serious players who's current lifestyle allows more playing time at lvl 70 but to best of my knowledge a large portion of the guild is still in the middle of the pack.

We're trying to get to 70 but we have serious questions about how we're going to do DKP. Without knowing about this stuff first hand it's hard for me to answer.

Some quotes:
"Agreed Yaril, however the point I want to make is that DKP will no Drive as motivation anymore, since most epic item are base on token system, this means that if you run with Guild for DKP or as PUG it will no matter you will still get tokens so people will start running instance no matter who is running it. "

"yes, I was confuse too, and then thinking about DKP confuse me lot more.
I initially though that there were different token per classes, however I was wrong, everyone will use "Tokens of the Fallen Hero". Which is suppose to drop 1 per each person in the raid.

now, question still remain, if 1 coin will drop per each person in the raid the DKP will have no sense at all. (Which for what I've read Blizz always want to get rid of the DKP systems)"

Also I'm concerned about our existing DKP systems. I want to merge our 2 into 1, but 1 is far less valuable than the other.

Some people want to start fresh, but that's just because they dont want the people who raided a ton and got nothing to get the first items.

Remember, that is only for Set Pieces. There are still random drops, which will definitely be on par or better than the set pieces, and people will definitely still want to get them in competition with others.

I suspect DKP might not be AS vital as it used to be but it's still going to be needed.

That is why I want Chops to Code in a Suicide Kings Module / importer for the site

We're seeing that most people are still concentrating on getting at least one character to 70. With that, we've suspended Naxx raiding and are moving toward the newer BC content. There is even some talk of 10-20 man farming of MC/BWL for enchanting mats etc.

We still have some who want to obtain their T3 pieces but there isn't a lot of focus on that. We're consistently running the 5 man instances all over BC... from the lowest to the highest and our biggest challenge is tanks/healers. Tho we're seeing more and more getting to the higher levels.

Not so much pain as a refocus of our energies.

We've been doing much better overall now that the BC is here. People have calmed down a lot and I've been very happy to see them mixing and matching to run instances and quest together instead of forming little cliques. We haven't set any time limits on leveling, and people are kind of spread out at the moment. Those with time on their hands (/halo) have hit 70 and some are still getting started. It's also been a good opportunity for those who have been wanting to switch which character is their main to do so. We have time to let people gear up their alts as well as their mains had been so the switch will be much easier.

We still pull everyone back together for a full guild "something" every Wednesday night. Some people have typically griped about this, because who really needs gear out of MC anymore? But the majority understands the fact that it is good for the guild to touch base as a whole and they also enjoy showing off their new items to everyone as well. It's been pretty fun to see just how fast we can kill old content now. And running into MC and going straight to Garr, bypassing all other bosses, JUST to see if the binding will drop for the warrior who got the first one almost a year ago was pretty fun. We downed him with 18 people and only one warlock. The warriors double tanked, and although it was a long fight, we got it with no one dying. And guess what? The binding dropped!

So overall, the BC has been very good for us. It was rough getting there, but I think we're a little stronger as a guild now that it's here.

WotF is having problems as we're on the Steamwheedle Cartel RP realm and no one seems to take things seriously enough. Although we are RP bias, the guild leader, I et al are ex hard-core raiders. Although we enjoy the slower pace these days (basically real life commitments prevent us from raiding everyday now), we still want to raid. We have tried an alliance, but the other guild seems to not want to raid.

Problems, problems........ I am sure hoping in time things will change.

Failing that apply with us at http://wotf.dkpsystem.com/

Our last guild (alliance) fell apart mostly because a few "hardcore" raiders (we were a pretty laid back guild) wanted to raid, while most of us just PvP'd for the arguably better / definitely easier to get rewards.

So we rerolled! Now we're a guild of about 60 people (most of them just now hitting the 60-70 mark), all close friends / skilled players

Personally I would find it hard to see a guild with more than 60 members or so function well, because you'd obviously have an "a" team where the people were better, had better gear, etc. and those that didn't have that gear would be in the b/c/d teams (think Karazhan) and would either not finish the instance, or not even down a boss.

*shrug*
It really depends on your members from what I've seen.

Here is my issue:

We have been raiding Karazhan now for a little over a month. Currently we are about half way through the zone. So, we started recruiting more members to host two weekly Karazhan raids so we can push for the 25 man content. Well what happen was this.

We took our main raid, and the new batch of members. Drew a line right down the middle, so we can have 2 raids with players that have spent time in Karazhan, and players with out time in Karazhan. The intent was NOT to have a more or less, "A" team and a "B" team. We did not want to have one group just blowing through bosses, and the other grp having to learn the boss encounters on their own or just struggling.

Well that worked out great for about 2 weeks, we had both new raid groups progressing at the same time, and no grp was more or less powered then the other. At the same time though, neither group made it as far as the original Karazhan group did.

Well now, the original guild members that were progressing in Karazhan first feel we have just taken a step back in progression. An in a sense they are kind of right.

What is happening now is we post up 2 different raids for both raid grps...and the members are all flocking to 1 raid, and leaving the second pretty much un touched... All the vets want to be in one raid....and guess what, so do the new guys....I am having a hard time drawing a thin line between love and hate...

We have successfully created what we did not want to do in the first place, and that was creating a "A" and "B" team. Not everyone can fit in the "A" team, and no one wants to even raid in the "B" team...

10 man raiding is fine for smaller guilds, until its time for 25 man content....then a new batch of players need to be geared up...

And on the other hand

10 man raiding is fine for the larger guilds. That can host 3 or more Karazhan runs at the same time...

I wish Blizzard did not have a 10 man raid as a stepping stone to 25 man content... or if they would have even made Karazhan a 20 man run...

So now myself and the guild officers are trying to combat our issue, so far best thing we can come up with, is stick with the main Karazhan grp...and further down the line, try a merger with a guild in our same situation. Combine forces to enter 25 man content...but I'm sure we all know how mergers work out...there is always a 50/50 chance for failure or success...

what to do, what to do.....

I logged on this morning and found out my guild downsized. I'm talking about almost 200 accounts being in the guild to only having 49 as of today.

This all coming about due to the smaller raid sizes and not being able to make room for everyone and it being almost impossible to do Karazhan with everyone.

That said, drama will obviously insue and I'm not looking forward to that.

We've also realized that a lot of people are not as interested in raiding now, which they were before release of TBC. I know everyone gets to a point in WoW where they wanna start raiding - and that is usually when there are no more quests to be done or no more dungeon gear to accquire. At least, that much is true for me. Other people just want to fly past all the dungeons and go straight to raiding. There is nothing bad about either, but it can cause conflict between members in a guild.

I for one, just want to play and have fun - which is hard at this point and that is just sad.

I don't know if you've ever been through a merger, but it's awful.
You have website issues, vent issues, "old and new" players, factions and all the drama that comes with a merge.

We had the same issue back when we were doing 2 ZG's / AQ's, all the vet's would want to do one ZG and power through it, while the 2nd group would take twice as long, probably wiping a few times.

What we did in the end (as GM's) was take specific players (generally our "best" players) and place them in g2.
This created faster / cleaner runs, and eventually evened out the "vets" from g1 to g2 (when you move 1 godly player to a different raid it's amazing how fast 3 or 4 of their close friends will move over as well).

Hope that helps, good luck =D